I really didn’t mean for this to turn into a back-and-forth polemic but I need to clarify some points brought up by Burrowowl in response to my original post. I didn’t discuss my views in sufficient detail since no-one including myself likes to read long boring tirades about politics, so I can see where I may have been unclear. My thesis is that despite anointing himself as the “candidate of change” Obama doesn’t offer much radically different from the current state of affairs or maybe I should say not much different than the rest of the democratic candidates. End the war, raise taxes, health care - the usual. However, being the “candidate of change” is useful in a sense that if a voter is against Obama, he automatically is against change. Even that is not so new: remember “if you …(insert whatever)… - the terrorists win”. I was merely pointing out that millions of starry-eyed democratic voters picked the best-looking but not necessarily the best candidate. I don’t know who the best is, they are all the same.
It was also pointed out to me that if I don’t vote I don’t count. I disagree. Consider my non-voting a form of a protest against the mediocrity of the candidates. I don’t think any of them qualify for my idea of the president and I refuse to vote just because there are no other choices. Everyone votes for whom they like, I don’t like anyone so I don’t vote. That simple.
I would also like to correct the following Burrowowl’s statement:
It is nearly impossible to live in an industrialized society without drawing some benefit from taxpayer funds. We have socialized sewage treatment, water supplies, state-protected power monopolies, socialized roads, postal systems, et cetera.
I disagree, illegals actually pay for these items, they are included in rent, gasoline taxes, sales taxes, property taxes. I don’t have any problem with anyone using these services and resources. When I said “Do not receive any taxpayer-provided assistance no exceptions” I meant no assistance available to legal taxpayers should be available to illegals. And yes, I’d like to give them all work visas, as many and for as long they want. They should be treated as contractors here - just compensation and no benefits, no social anything, no medical anything, no educational anything. If some private entity wants to support such contractors I have no problem. Otherwise they should be supported by their own country’s social system. Your country sucks? Here is your number on the waiting list.
What Meesha probably meant here is that he doesn’t like paying taxes. Yeah. People don’t like paying taxes, but we also don’t like potholes and homeless elderly people all over the place.
Well I don’t like paying taxes but mostly because I can witness how my money is wasted on every level and not spent on potholes and homeless. If it was, there wouldn’t be either. My personal pet peeve is why do government employees enjoy extra days off while I am working to pay for it. Why wasn’t I given a paid day off when Ronald Reagan died, he was like a grandfather to me. However, in this case I was actually talking about having control of a portion of my Social Security tax which is likely the only money I will ever see from Social Security. Why is it such a bad idea? Don’t give them to me so I can buy another TV, just let me know it’s there and it’s mine.
This is getting too long again and I can go on. But I’d rather have a beer and watch some Daily Show. Now, that’s entertainment.
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3 responses so far ↓
1
travel
// Jun 6, 2008 at 10:19 pm
And, chiming in again. Debate is good. Dissent is good. I’m a conservative and I know a lot of liberals don’t agree with what I write but I will say this about liberals..at least they give me an opportunity to say what I want. The conservatives are generally tight lipped and stymie debate, a definite failing. I’d rather be told to fuck off and defend myself than be shut off.
That said, there are so many things to comment on regarding Obama vs McCain, I’d just like to ask this. How can we justify the Cubans via the Chinese drilling for oil and natural gas within a few miles of the area environmentalists (democrats) deem too pure to drill in while at the same time blaming Bush et al for the cost of gas while all of us middle and lower class people suffer?
That is but one example of why I am pissed. I don’t believe either party or presidential candidate can answer that question to my satisfaction or has even tried. Meanwhile, we are all suffering the consequences.
I could go on and on with other examples of why I’m pissed with both parties and candidates, but won’t hijack this thread. I want answers from those who say they are the best leader. Not some “change” speeches. Not some record 40 years old. Tell me what the fuck you are going to do!!!
2
travel
// Jun 6, 2008 at 10:29 pm
And, here’s another example. The democrats defend illegal immigrants because they want their vote. The republicans defend the illegal immigrants because big business has the republicans in their pocket and big business wants the cheap labor. Everybody knows what I just said is true. So, tell me how either party has the best interests of either citizens or illegals at heart? Answer, they don’t. They are exploiting the illegals and they are fucking the citizen taxpayer who is ultimately paying the bill for all the social costs associated with the illegals. Both parties only care about their special interests. Neither cares about any of us.
3
Burrowowl
// Jun 7, 2008 at 12:11 am
Damn straight arguing about politics is a good thing. Keeps us all on our toes.
@Meesha - The general “change” that Obama has been pushing for with his rhetoric revolves mostly around working with the opposition instead of playing up wedge issues. He doesn’t drop the “bipartisan” buzzword much because people are allergic to it. If he were pushing for radical change his name would have been Kucinich or Paul and he never would have won a primary.
It is certainly true that illegal immigrants pay several forms of taxes which are typically bound closely to certain services (gas taxes tend to go to road maintenance, sales taxes tend to go to local municipalities, et cetera). My main point in that regard was simply that there were three conditions listed for staying in the US, one of which was to pay taxes and that this was already happening. We largely agree on that subject, I think.
Regarding money being used to fill potholes and keep elderly people off the street, that really does happen. I see road crews all the time patching up the last road crew’s shoddy work. Those guys don’t work for free. The elderly people being kept off the street are the ones getting their Social Security checks. That money comes from your payroll taxes. You young, industrious people are paying for the old crotchety people to sit on their butts all day and conspire as to how they’re going to soak you for better prescription drug benefits and such because, unlike you, they vote and hence the people in charge of your taxes care about their opinions.
@Travel - Regarding the blame of Bush and company for oil prices, that has a lot to do with stirring up the pot in the middle east, increased posturing against oil-rich states like Venezuela and Russia, and generally helping stoke the speculative flames. Back in 2000 there were people arguing that putting two oil men in charge would help us get our energy policy in line. Well it has, just not in the way folks were hoping.
There is certainly a very strong argument to be made that environmentalists have had a big impact specifically on gasoline prices, due to the supposed difficulty and financial risk now involved in building a refinery to process the crude oil into fuel for your car. We could put another hundred thousand barrels of oil on the US market every day and it won’t mean much more gasoline.
So-called environmentalists also had a big role to play in all the coal-burning electrical plants sprouting up all over, due to their fervent and continuous opposition to the creation of any nuclear plants. Al Gore may well be more responsible for global warming than any other living american.
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